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Verschiebung der Artillerie im Gefecht
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Drouot
Fourrier
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Anmeldedatum: 09.02.2006
Beiträge: 93
Wohnort: UK

BeitragVerfasst am: Do, 28. September 2006 18:23 Beitrag speichern    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

die 12-pdr war artillerie zu fuB (feldartillerie) und retiende im die armee franzosich 1784-1827.

I know their has been complaints about English being used on a German board, so accept my apologies for not being the best german speaker in UK.Embarassed

Assuming I have understood the thread of the discussion, the 12-pdr and 8-pdr was used as both horse and foot artillery. They are very mobile pieces, and are easily moved by two horses with the limber or prolonge.
The crew for the 12-pdr was 15men, the 8-pdr 13men, the extra men on the 12-pdr crew being ammunition numbers in the main. The 4-pdr had an 8man crew.

These ammunition numbers were in theory infantry assistants, and were the equivalent of Austrian Handlanger.

In the french army the 12-pdr was not a position gun, in Austria and Prussia they were. The Austrian regulations of 1808-9 started to address this lack of mobility in their artillery tactics but not greatly. The Prusssian 1812 regulations are similar to the French. The Russians also used 12-pdr as position guns.
In general the French did not use position artillery in the Napoleonic epoch, it was used in Italy to c.1798 and again in 1813. 1600 guns were lost by the french at Dennewitz, Katbach and Kulm, so Napoleon authorised the use of 16-pdr and 18-pdr guns in positions due to the lack of 12-pdrs with the army.

I hope this answers some questions, if not please ask and I will endeavour to answer Razz

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wufi
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Anmeldedatum: 04.09.2006
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr, 29. September 2006 10:25 Beitrag speichern    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

thank you Drouot

(sorry for my english) Embarassed

I asked were the assistants for the artillery-crews (one cannon= 8artillery-soldiers) came from, if they had to change the Position of the cannon (french army).
You say, that they came from the infantry.
In the Austrian Army there was the Handlanger-Regiment, but I never found a similar unit in the French army. So how were they organised? Were they ad hoc detachements from the infantry-Regiments? Question

tschou tsäme
wufi

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Drouot
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr, 29. September 2006 10:50 Beitrag speichern    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

the infantry assistants would be assigned action by action. A division would be assigned its artillery, the infantry from the division providing the assistants on an ad hoc basis.

The assistants were only neccessary for the 8-pdr, 12-pdr and howitzers in the foot artillery. The assistants basically helped move the ammunition and help move the gun. the horse artillery never had assistants.

How often the assistants were used in the foot artillery is not known, the only memoires mentioning the assistants are for Aspern-Essling and Wagram from Coignet. I think the assistants were not always added to the gun crew.

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HKDW
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr, 29. September 2006 12:32 Beitrag speichern    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

Drouot

I think Wufi states the a 12 pdr battery had according to his information only 8 gunners head count for a battery and he wondered from where the other 7 did come from?

I hardly think that infantry commanders would give soldiers to artillery guns, other than the guard who virtually were watchers in the rear.

What I would like to know is, was an artillery battery of 12 pdr sufficiently strong in numbers to get these 15 gunners per piece. Or was this a piece time outfit and essentially 8 gunners would be more then enough to use a 12 pdr?

Lechartier also has some interesting points to make on those aspects, even from where did the gunners come of the 10 guns Davout in-corporated in his coprs in 1806?

HK

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Drouot
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BeitragVerfasst am: Fr, 29. September 2006 14:19 Beitrag speichern    Titel: Antworten mit Zitat

A 12-pdr and 8-pdr both had 8 man gun crews, the 8-pdr having 5 assisrants and the 12-pdr 7. foot battery had 20 1ere cannonier and 48 2eme cannonier, in total 78men served the guns, at 9 per gun (8 gunners and 1 corporal) (not classing the two drummers and four workmen), so the extra men had to be made up from outside the artillery.

this organisation was the same in times of peace and war to the best of my knowledge, as each battery would need an extra 56men for a 12-pdr battery. I will double check this with the journal militair though.

All the contemporary manuals say that these men were from the infantry, but I have never come accross references of these men being added to the gun crews.

The 8 men on the gun crew would be the minimum to operate a 12-pdr, but their would be no extra gunners to move ammunition up from the caissons, which is what the infantry assistants were for, so their must have been extra gunners added at some point, but their origin at the moment elludes me.

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